etsy strike

[spacefem]

There's an etsy boycott this week but I didn't participate. I kept my shop up and I'm pretending I didn't hear anything about it.

Etsy raised their transaction fee price from 5% to 6.5% and sellers are mad.

I am not. I guess this means I'm a capitalist.

Sellers said if Etsy raises prices they will find another venue, dammit! Uh, well... that's what you do then. shrug. a one week blackout isn't going to make them change their mind.

Shopify charges a monthly fee to set up shop and sell things. Etsy charges 20 cents to list something, then doesn't charge you anything else unless it actually sells, then they charge the 6.5% transaction fee and a 3% + $0.25 processing fee if the buyer pays through etsy. if they pay through paypal, then paypal charges something similarly annoying. The processing fee likely goes to credit card companies... we can't pretend we don't know how that works.

It sucks, but I'm someone who has made my own website, with my own paypal buttons, and that sucks too. In fact I did that as a job way back when I was in college, charged people hundreds of dollars for website setup. So that's the alternative! Etsy doesn't have a monopoly. We can sell through ebay, amazon, facebook marketplace... so how will they set prices?

My dad used to say "they charge that much because they can".

This is just how the world works.

If I sell a $10 thing, I used to pay $1.05 in fees, now I pay $1.20. If I'm mad about it I'll raise my price to $10.15. As a seller we have to make sure we price our items so we're making enough money to justify our efforts. We tell ourselves that all the time. But when Etsy wants to raise a transaction price, it makes the news?

Comments

[wantedonvoyage]

Is that all that's behind it? I thought it was bigger than that.

[spacefem]

that's what started it. there is kind of some other stuff about how etsy needs to do more to protect IP, prevent stolen designs, knock out resellers and spammers and people who break the rules, but that's always been a complaint and again, every website deals with it.

[dancing_ghost]

There is more to it than that: https://etsystrike.org/

[greghousesgf]

I'm suddenly getting a lot more etsy ads than I used to, I wonder if that's why. I've never bought anything on there.

[cactus_rs]

Etsy is making so much bank, especially now that they're a listed company, that it's tacky af to raise their fees.

More seriously, sellers also have no control over whether their images are used when Etsy advertises itself elsewhere. And yes, the real cash cows for etsy are the resellers and drop shippers with an Etsy storefront. They'll do a weak tea removal of the maybe the most flagrant violations but they have a poor history of due diligence when it comes to the sellers they feature in little PR puff pieces (I remember one "jewelry workshop" where the photos of the purported work bench included hardware rather than jewelers pliers -- pliers that would scratch the almighty fuck out of any wire a jeweler would be working with). The website is little better than a palette swapped AliBaba.

From a longer term perspective, the history of Etsy is one where it could build a brand thanks to the hard work of indie artists and sellers (ie other people's hard work); it went from being a place that genuinely cared about offering them a good platform to being a place that cashed out that "quirky" "unique" reputation for stakeholder value. In that context, I find Etsys approach to be deeply unethical, and have for some time.

It's easy to be flippant when you have an Etsy store as a hobby rather than a sole income source, and it's easy to tut tut people who quit day jobs or who figured they could rely on a single e-commerce platform for perpetuity, but if people are saying this policy is damaging their business then I think we should believe them and also consider the actual material fallout that's possible from it. Especially considering how hard Etsy was (and maybe still is?) pushing the "quit your day job, sell full time on Etsy, it's magical!" narrative. I don't think it's kind or helpful to just be like "well you should have thought that through better, dipshit! that's capitalism!"

Looking at Etsys financials from 2020, they certainly don't look like they need any kind of cash injection:

ACTIVE SELLERS grew 61.7% to 4.4 million

ACTIVE BUYERS grew 76.7% to 81.9 million* *As of December 31, 2020 year-over-year

Our operational success enabled us to achieve the following financial results:

• Gross merchandise sales (‘‘GMS’’) grew by 106.7% year-over-year to $10.3 billion, up from $5.0 billion in 2019, with 36% of GMS coming from transactions where a buyer, a seller, or both, were located outside of the United States.

• Revenue increased by 110.9% year-over-year to a total of $1.7 billion, up from $818.4 million in 2019, led by Marketplace revenue growth of 119.5%.

• Net income was $349.2million, compared to $95.9 million in 2019.

• Non-GAAP Adjusted EBITDA was $549.1 million, representing an increase of 194.8% year-over-year, compared to $186.3 million in 2019. Non-GAAP Adjusted EBITDA margin (i.e., non-GAAP Adjusted EBITDA divided by revenue) was 31.8%, compared to 22.8% in 2019. See ‘‘Non-GAAP Financial Measures’’ for a reconciliation of Adjusted EBITDA to net income, the most directly comparable financial measure calculated in accordance with GAAP."

Their financial reports are all here: https://investors.etsy.com/financials/annual-reports-and-proxy/default.aspx

Couldn't immediately track down a proper annual report for 2021 but Etsy put out the typical press release with a précis of the figures. All positive, growth all around.

https://investors.etsy.com/press-releases/press-release-details/2022/Etsy-Inc.-Reports-Fourth-Quarter-and-Full-Year-2021-Results/default.aspx


that's a pretty robust performance that can weather a storm or two. What losses, exactly, does Etsy need to make up for by turning the screws a little more?

[dancing_ghost]

100% this. They absolutely did not need to increase the fees to keep the platform running, and to do it on top of all of the other ways they've hurt sellers, it's something a lot of people can't ignore.

[spacefem]

but again... how does anyone price anything? How do you price what you offer on Etsy? Is it based on what's nice to your customers, or what's "enough" for you to make?

Or are your prices based what you *want* to charge, who you're competing with, and what you decide your service is worth?

Etsy clearly picked the 2nd option. I agree that they REALLY need to increase their customer service, the bots shutting down shops are a huge problem, but that's separate.

[cactus_rs]

there's a difference between offering a finished consumer good and offering a service upon which no small number of people are dependent for their livelihood.

[chromaskies]

The commenter above me said it well, but I'll also add a little bit of my understanding.

Raising fees, when there are many who want to attempt to make a living on etsy, can be damaging on many levels. I'm one of those people. I have to consider my bottom line. I'm not saying it will happen, I can hope, but if I'm selling a large amount of items, and this is my full-time job, those fees add up very quickly and the fee hike can be damaging to my bottom line. Sure one can say all day to just raise prices, it's capitalism, but no one, with any knowledge of business and understanding of how the customer's mind works, should do that. I know companies have all the power to do that, but if a company keeps raising the price of their items or services, people are going to try to find a cheaper alternative, especially those of us who are struggling to make ends meet and those of us that are in debt and struggling to keep afloat. It's happened to me. Aerie used to run a special on their undies, 10 pairs for $25 ($2.50 each). It felt like a steal so I bought a few sets over time. They've now raised their prices. It's now 6 for $30 ($5.00 each) which is less affordable and the price hike pushed me to consider other options that are more affordable. In the end, Aerie lost my business. This is just an example to show the psychology behind the customer. Now I know that there are people out there who can afford a price hike. That's fine, they may still continue to shop, by example, Aerie's underwear. That said, for people who are more in a financial bind and have needs, they may start searching for cheaper alternatives. People like feeling like they're getting a good deal and people, who are in a bind, HAVE to find a better deal. It's the same with gas prices. People will pile at the place that sells for less. Hubby and I do it, my parents do it, Sally and Dan next door would do it too. If you're selling something on etsy and a paying customer sees that you've raised your prices and that exceeds their possibly small spending budget, you may lose some customer loyalty.

Now I'm not saying that buying on etsy is the same as buy gas, but there again, it depends on a customer's needs and what the shop offers. A mother, who is sick and tired of diaper prices going up, may start to consider fabric diapers, which I know people do make. They may start buying from a seller on etsy. If the seller on etsy keeps raising prices to keep up with fee hikes, a customer could get frustrated and again, you lost some loyalty. This is one of the many things a business owner has to think about. I've worked enough retail to know that customer loyalty is very heavily pushed. In the end, it's important to retain your customer base.

Sellers said if Etsy raises prices they will find another venue, dammit!
This works the other way around too. Customers think like this, as well.

I'm going to be honest, I admire the people who are willing to stand up for what they believe in, even if that means they're "going on strike". If people are bothered by fee hikes and it's hurting their bottom line and their customer base, good on them for standing up for themselves. Nothing changes if nothing changes. It's okay, too, if people can afford to take the fee hike hit, who are more so selling as a side gig and it's not their full-time job. That's perfectly fine, but not thinking of those who do this for a living, who are hurt by any kind of increase, feels a little like they were disregarded.

[ravena_kade]

The etsy thing is hard.

I do not have a shop. The full time job selling is a dream... but Etsy never came with healthcare so not an option. I do jewelry and ceramics. There are tons of jewelry places...and many people want free shipping so the ceramics would be priced out of existence. A Ceramic Christmas tree that I price at $65 is sold by others on etsy at almost $200 for that free shipping. I just stayed away from it.

The best I have heard is to use etsy at first and then pimp the heck out of your self and point people to your own webpage. If successful you can ween off etsy when you have your audience.

For there to be another venue then someone has to make it. Maybe someone will? Who knows.

[ironphoenix]

Alternatives exist, although they are of course not identical. I agree with your idea that using Etsy to build up a base is a decent plan.

[dandylover1]

People today like to complain about everything. Etsy is doing the work for them. As you said, if they really want to, they can sell on their own sites. I would rather just use Etsy. It isn't even as if they are charging a lot, unless, perhaps, you're selling things for thousands of dollars, which most people aren't.